Hot Take - We need more liberal arts kids and less STEM
A trend that I've been noticing as of late is the fact that kids from Stanford, MIT and other STEM centric schools that I've worked with or have heard stories about lack the social and communication skills, or the "polish", for a lack of better words to succeed in this client facing world.
What I've seen is that the larger shops are taking STEM majors from less "social" schools such as Georgia Tech, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, CMU, Imperial and Waterloo (the brits and canucks), who seem to break in off the back of their schools brand name alone. They bring little value to the table, especially if they majored in engineering orcs. We need more polished kids with the proper pedigree that we don't feel the need to hide from clients, not more engineerers, mathematicians, chemists and physicists.
On the contrary, kids that I've seen who come from Yale, Brown, Amherst and the more LACy types are the ones who can communicate well and have the right type of "polish" tosucceed in front officeroles. For every math and engineering course that a STEM major takes, he's not taking a history, english, linguistics or politics course to polish his written, verbal and argumentative skills.
tl;dr we should be hiring more kids from law schools, yale, brown, amhert, william & mary and the likes instead of stanford, mit, carnegie mellon and rice
Comments (28)
努力与这样一个广泛的str油漆整个学校oke (besides explicitly STEM schools like MIT) but I agree wholeheartedly. As a humanities major at Stanford I can tell you firsthand how undersocializedCSand other engineering majors are generally. Business is clientelism first, supported by data and analysis - not the other away around. I think this is a large reason why many of these STEM kids may thrive in their analyst years but struggle when the job becomes more client facing associate+, then they exit to buy side and kill the analytical associate years to struggle as a VP and the cycle continues…
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This is kinda fair, but you don't learn polish or client interaction skills in humanities classes either.
I think banks are making a conscious trade off in the hiring process. Since most analysts leave in 2-3 years, why not hire the one who will likely be better at the analyst job?
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Essentially all senior roles (and lots of them higher up than analyst/associate type), in most industries require soft skills and client facing activities. Like it or not, business is about people. Tech savvy kids with limited social skills will reside in tech roles that have a limited upside. Granted, they are still good paying jobs but they will be stuck in the work of the beast, vs. leading the beast.
we need less autistic phone addicted youth, not more liberal arts majors
those same "phone addicted autists" are the faang engineers andhfquants who cant be in a revenue generating (client facing) or management role, thus why they have to rape their brain with code and be lethargic code monkeys optimizing an app or fixing bugs for pennies on the dollar
You're not necessarily wrong, but let me provide an alternative perspective.
软技能在某种程度上是普遍的普遍人物技能（某些事情，例如礼貌和说话良好，无论听众如何）以及在某种程度上取决于（在硅谷都可以很好地发挥的性格和举止，对休斯顿都无法很好地发挥作用石油高管）。
Engineers often lack universal people skills. But they also are often considered socially awkward simply because they have different personalities and interests than the broader social group, or at least the most influential people in that group. In other words, what you see as unpolished might actually play well to certain audiences.
带有一个的C套件执行MBAmight see an engineer as 'unpolished.' But an entrepreneur-type like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, or execs with engineering backgrounds, would likely prefer the 'unpolished' engineer who has genuine interest in the work at hand over a traditionalMBAconsultant personality.
If you consider that execs with these types of personalities are becoming increasingly central to the US economy (tech firms and start ups have dominated the economy and generally dislike traditional consulting personalities), that consulting work is becoming more technical (MBBhave all invested in data science / analytics arms), and that engineers are ~generally~ smarter than LAC students on balance, it isn't hard to see why consulting firms would value engineering students.
Again, this isn't meant as a rebuttal to your complaint, as a) some people have genuinely unsociable personalities no matter what context you put them in and b) mostMBBclients are still traditional 'business types'. But I would argue that polish might not be the end all be all for front office consulting roles that it once was.
我同意这一点。我只想添加，我确实认为公司需要做得更好，包括与人格和思维方式非常合适的人组成他们的团队。顺便说一句，这不仅是面对服务的专业客户中的问题。manbetx 2.0下载这在整个美国公司都成为一个问题。“个性”测试变得越准确和现实，对团队运作的结果就越好。这就是全部。我们需要一些沉重的孩子，我们需要更多的“抛光”孩子，但是总体而言，我们需要更准确地了解一个人的个性，以及该个性如何适合团队和整个组织的其他成员。如果我现在要创建某种能力测试，我可能会假设该系统需要能够在正面和负面目的深处深入挖掘个性。我们可以发现员工的恐惧，不安全感，真正的内在动机，真实价值等。您会看到我要去的地方。听起来很恐怖？ It is but it's real and that's the direction we're headed in respect to hiring, in my opinion.
Rankings are overdone onWSO，但是对我来说，关于该领域的严格程度（即您可以BS多少），文科学科的“层次”。
I've always had a lot of respect for history, classics, and philosophy majors at my target because you simply can't bs that hard what happened in the past or get a good grade for a shitty argument - these students are typically very bright.
Much easier to bs readings and papers in English, Comparative Lit, Art History, etc. that are "open to interpretation" and in which grading seems more arbitrary.
总体而言，我同意你的看法。
Over the last century you see a clear decline in the standards of the three disciplines you claim are more difficult, with no correlation to difficulty of admission at a target. Philosophy departments today shy away from analytical philosophy, classics departments are scrapping language requirements, and history departments are doing away with required knowledge of historiography. English, comp lit, and art history may not be rigorous, they are not better or worse than the other three.
Not sure what the department looks like today, but when I was enrolled as a history major at a top LAC ~10+ years ago, historiography was the backbone of the entire department. Everything was built off of a historiographical framework.
I think I have social anxiety. However, I am only a senior in high school, and I am trying my absolute hardest to become better. I want to have a career inECM/DCMor CB. Does anyone have any tips to lower social anxiety? I only started to become more social this year, and so far, I have had some great progress imo. I force myself to get out of my comfort zone, and it has been working. I already feel more confident while talking to people, but I want to become the best version of myself possible.
join a frat and talk to females
Thats exactly what I was thinking. A frat might be a huge shock for me at first, but I would be forced to adapt.
Spend more time partying. The confidence will come. You'll start linking with the boys, eventually join a dope frat, then you begin to taper the partying down and transition to studying more. The rest is history. But if you miss out on those critical high school and college years of being too afraid to go out, the problem will only compound itself. Go do some dumb shit, have fun, be safe.
Hot Take on your Hot Take. Soft skills can be developed on the job just like technical skills can be developed. Is either one better, no. but there is a balancing act of hiring for the kind of people we need at the Junior level and building future MD's.
strongly disagree.
the business world is changing. the old white guys who ran corporations for decades because of their family connections are retiring amass. they are replaced by successful immigrants who grinded their way out and studied hard and graduated with technical degrees from top schools. these clients are much more likely to connect with other less social consultants from MIT, Stanford, etc. than with super social guys who never studied anything technical and when they speak everybody can tell they don't know shit.
Who broke your buck?
I think OP has such a bad take. Seriously have seen so many art major kids be piss poor on the job because they've had no real analytical rigor. Good at talking a lot without saying anything. Have also seen so many STEM kids being perfectly good communicators. It's just stereotypes. In banking you don't need to be an expert at either - just ok at both (and seriously as an analyst you dont even need to be that good at both. You just learn along the way anyway). Be whatever you want - humanities/stem etc as long as you can (i) elaborate your points clearly at work and (ii) can work with numbers and conduct decent analysis (maybe that's more relevant on the buyside since banking is brain dead stuff). The best people I've worked with were all people who sounded like they were punks from business school but were actually STEM backgrounds
"Hey, how was your weekend! ... Sounds amazing!"
15 min later...
“好的，开展业务。你能带我完成净收入吗？”
您是否试图通过被动攻击性精英人士使美国更具女性化的美国？
"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
I'd say technical skills are still massively undervalued. The reason why data science hasn't taken over is because there are major gaps that prevent older corporations from being data driven. The biggest obstacle by far is organizational behavior. Existing executive leadership largely built their career on their wit and business intuition behind closed boardroom doors, not their ability to lead a data driven and transparent technology firm. As a result they won't focus on building the proper infrastructure necessary to extract any meaningful value from data. Any data scientist they hire is dead on arrival and so this perpetuates the idea that tech skills are overrated.
Occasionally though a young company will find itself in the right environment to properly execute with more technical maturity and they'll absolutely destroy the competition. This started with gaming and social media. Now the wave is moving beyond pure digital products to digitalized physical products. Thinkamazon storesor peleton, where they know every single purchase you've made, every workout you gave up on, every item you've considered. They are tracking every decision you've made since the first marketing ad you were shown. How do you compete against someone with a level of insight into consumer behavior several magnitudes beyond what you are capable of? The answer is you can't.
this doesn't mean you should put down your Latin books for c++. As I said, there are still many major obstacles, the most obvious one today being data privacy. Organizational behavior changes may take even longer to shift. But it is clear to me, the leaders of tomorrow will have to be even more technical than those of today.
We need more of both tech and soft skills.
前律师/人文学科的学生在这里，您不希望再上一所法学院的孩子，如果您想在现实世界中实际实施或完成任何事情，就不希望他们在公司或项目附近任何一个。他们没有受过培训，可以参加具有多个运动部件的大型组织，并具有明确的任务。他们是抄写员，他们读了19世纪的一些愚蠢的宪法案件。他们不会增加价值。
NESCAC schools are full of GDIs, saying they are any more social or smooth than Rice Carnegie Mellon etc. is innacurate.
Nothing learned in a humanities program, and any social science program except economics, will help someone in a front office role or to develop the soft skills you mentioned. At most you are dealing with selection bias here, rather than skills acquisition through a program. They are for those dyslexic with numbers and they are often emotional basket cases. Anyone with facility with numbers should study STEM and not waste their four years on frivolous pursuits.
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